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WARNING - Don't
get scammed by i-store-online
!
Beware of : i-store-online,
sale-point, Galliardo AG
A cautionary tale . . . . .
I normally consider myself to be reasonably "web-savvy"
and like to think that I won't get caught out by things like
phishing e-mails or
other obvious on-line scams, but I almost got caught out recently. I was
in too much of a hurry to purchase a new DFS server for my network at
the best possible price, and spent more time looking at the system specs
and prices than I did looking at the credibility of a prospective
supplier.
After I had selected the device that I wanted, I did a
bit of surfing for the best price and found a site called i-store-online
which was offering the server at around 10% less than I could get it for
in the UK. A cursory look at the website, which was the first "schoolboy
error", threw up some reassuring "facts" such as, the goods would be
"shipped from their UK Warehouse in Milton Keynes" in the UK (which does
not actually exist) and would therefore "not be subject to additional UK
VAT or import duties" (unlikely that they would get away with this
anyway). The site also accepted payment by PayPal, so I thought that
there was adequate assurance that I would not lose money by dealing with
this site and the tone of the website suggested that it was based in
Europe.
The price that I was paying seemed to be reasonable, it
was not impossibly cheap, but still offered a saving worth having, so I
went ahead and placed the order. A few days after I placed the order
(yes, I know, I should have done it beforehand) I went back to the site
to check on the status of the order and started to have some concerns.
It became obvious that the site was in fact based in Thailand and
reading through the Terms & Conditions in greater detail, I found that
they included provision for additional charges for things like using the
PayPal Disputes process. At this point, I started to have some concerns
that the delivery might not arrive and started to do some searches for
i-store-online and reported problems with their "service".
It was very quickly apparent that this site has been the
subject of a lot of problem reports - just
Google
i-store-online scam for example and you'll see what I mean. At this
point, I was more worried about not getting the server in a timely
manner
than actually losing money - I was relatively confident that the PayPal
Buyer Protection scheme would come to my aid should it be required, so I
went ahead and ordered another server from a UK supplier that I had
dealt with previously. (I would not have been too worried if the
original order eventually arrived as I could have used two of them
anyway.)
I was still hoping that I might actually receive the
i-store-online order, after all, they surely must fulfil some
orders or PayPal and the like would have stopped them using their
payment methods? On that basis, I was happy to let the order run and see
what would happen, I was very conscious of the PayPal deadline on
raising a dispute (45 days from placing of the order) and set reminders
in my calendar to remind me to check on progress, or lack of, as the
deadline approached.
During this time, the i-store-online
system sent me status updates on the "progress" of the order, it is
obvious that these updates are auto-generated based solely on the
elapsed time of the order and bear no relation to the actual progress of
the order. Posts from a number of i-store-online customers
suggests that this is typical of orders placed through their store -
"progress" reports are received up until the order should have been
received for shipment at their (non-existent) local warehouse, at which
time, the item is either reported as "lost" or "damaged in transit".
Subsequent e-mails advise that a replacement has been requested and the
e-mail saga begins again. At appears that "delays" and "shipping
problems" are a deliberate ploy to extend the order beyond the timeframe
for raising a dispute with PayPal.
In my case, the "progress" reports are shown in the
table below, the text, complete with spelling mistakes, was extracted
from the e-mails sent from the i-store-online system.
| Date |
Abridged
e-mails from i-store-online in black |
my comments in
green |
| 11-Dec-2013 |
Confirmation
of your order entry
1 x Buffalo
Technology TeraStation 5400 Rackmount WSS 2012 8 TB IS191626
1.213,28 GBP |
| 12-Dec-2013
+1 Day |
Your order with i-store-online
- shipment completion check
New status: 02)
shipment completion check
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
waiting |
on date stated |
1 work day |
2
work days |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work
days |
1 work day |
next step
Information as to shippment completion date
expected /
planned today |
| 12-Dec-2013 |
Your order with i-store-online
- Order Confirmation - shipment completion note
New status: 03)
Order Confirmation - shipment completion note
ready to ship:
18.12.2013
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
waiting |
on date stated |
1 work day |
2
work days |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work
days |
1 work day |
next step
Shippment Coordination
expected /
planned on date stated |
| 13-Dec-2013
+2 Days |
Your Order Acceptance for Order
No. 60081252 from 12/11/2013
1 x Buffalo
Technology TeraStation 5400 Rackmount WSS 2012 8 TB IS191626
1.213,28 GBP |
| 13-Dec-2013 |
Your order with i-store-online
- Payment received
New status: 08)
payment received
|
Payment received |
Shippment Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
on date stated |
1 work day |
2
work days |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work days |
1 work day |
|
|
next
step Shippment Coordination
expected / planned on date stated
|
| 18-Dec-2013
+7 Days |
Your order with i-store-online
- dispatch management
New status: 09)
Dispatch management
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
1 work day |
2
work days |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work
days |
1 work day |
next step
Exit warehouse
expected /
planned 1 work day
(Today was the promised "ready to
ship" date, it was actually a meaningless status of
"dispatch management") |
| 21-Dec-2013
+10 Days |
Your order with i-store-online
- shipment has left warehouse
New status: 10)
Shipment has left warehouse
Your order has
gone out of our depot and is on its way to the international
parcel centre. Shipments through UK (United Kingdom) or
Germany with final destination within the EU: Shipments
which are being sent from our central depot in Hong Kong
through our delivery depot in UK (Milton Keynes) will not be
subject to customs clearance within Europe, because in this
case the shipments are regarded as intercommunal trade.
|
Payment
received |
Shippment Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
2
work days |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work days |
1 work day |
|
|
next step Entry Sorting Center
expected / planned 2 work days
(I'm sure that
HMRC would have a
view on what "intercommunal trade" means!)
|
| 24-Dec-2013
+13 Days |
Your order with i-store-online
- shipment reached sorting centre
New status: 11)
Shipment reached sorting centre
Your shipment has
reached the international parcel centre and is being
inspected by customs.
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
completed |
3-4
work days |
4-5/10-12 work
days |
1 work day |
next step Customs clearance and international shipping to
local distribution warehouse
expected / planned 3 work days |
| 26-Dec-2013
+15 Days |
Your order with i-store-online
-shipping international / Status
New status: 13)
International shipping
Your shipment has
left the country of origin and is currently on an
international freight forwarding route.
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
4-5/10-12 work
days |
1 work day |
next step Arriving at local warehouse and shipping to local
delivery address
expected / planned 4-5 work days for express shipping /
10-12 work days for standard shipping
(The shipment now reported as having
left the country of origin - some two weeks after the order
was placed. It was good of those Thai Customs folks to work
Christmas day to clear it though....) |
| 09-Jan-2014
+29 Days |
Your order with i-store-online
-Delivery in the distrubation center
New status: 14)
Distribution Centre Entry
Your shipment has
been received at the delivery depot and will be completed
for delivery.
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
1 work day |
next step
Delivery at your home or business address
expected /
planned 1 work day
(So, it's now in Milton Keynes and
will be delivered tomorrow - won't it?) |
| 11-Jan-2014
+31 Days |
Not surprisingly, the item was not
delivered. The i-store-online website does not provide an
e-mail address for support, instead, you have to create a
Support "account" and address any queries there.
Despite registering and submitting my
enquiry in English, I received an automated response in
German, which, courtesy of Google Translate, basically said
I would receive a response in 24-48 hours. |
|
13-Jan-2014
+33 Days |
Either in response to my reporting of
non-delivery of the order, or as a product of their
automated fairy tale generator, I received another update 2
days later.
Your order with i-store-online
- Request package location
New status: F1)
Shipment location identification
The delivery time
estimated by the logistical company has been exceeded. For
this reason we have initiated a shipment location search for
your consignment. Within a period of 48 - 72 hours we must
be informed about the exact location of your shipment.
|
Payment received |
Shippment
Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting
center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
|
next step Information as to location of consignment
expected / planned 72 hours |
|
16-Jan-2014
+36 Days |
Right on cue, 72 hours later, I
received . . . .
Your order with i-store-online
-Tracking of shipment initiated / shipment halted
New status: F3)
Tracking of shipment initiated / shipment halted
To the
investigation regarding the location of your shipment we
have had no positive response from the logistical company.
For safety reasons we have now begun a tracking action and
have stopped any further movement of the shipment. A
replacement consignment by special express has already been
ordered
|
Payment received |
Shippment Coordination |
Exit warehouse |
Entry sorting center |
Customs clearance |
local warehouse |
Delivery |
|
received |
completed |
completed |
completed |
completed |
blocked |
|
|
|
next step replacement consignment
expected / planned (no date provided)
(To create even more hassle for the
customer, I also had to e-mail a signed copy of a loss
report statement to them.) |
|
16-Jan-2014 |
At this
point, even though I had serious doubts earlier, I decided
that there was no possibility of receiving the item,
certainly not within the time allowed for a PayPal Dispute
to be raised, so I submitted the loss report statement along
with a request for a full refund of the amount paid in UK
pounds to the PayPal account used for the purchase.
(I had seen reports of other customers
eventually getting a refund to a bank account, paid in
Euros, rather than the transaction currency.)
(I also read reports from users who
did actually receive their order, but only after extensive
delays and having been subject to UK VAT and Customs
charges.) |
|
17-Jan-2014
+37 Days |
The
following day I received :-
your oder with i-store
- Reversal of sales contract
New status: B4)
Reversal of sales contract
A reversal of the
sales contract you entered into with us is being processed.
Your order has
been cancelled free of charge, since the item you ordered
was unavailable or undeliverable within the designated time.
If you have sent your payment already you will be reimbursed
in full. Your customer account will be credited |
|
18-Jan-2014
+38 Days |
Followed 1 day later by :-
We entered a
credit into your customer account
CREDIT AMOUNT TO
BE PAID: + 1213.28 GBP
You may then use
the credit balance in your customer account for other
orders, or you may have it disbursed, completing the
Repayment Form
To prevent
misappropriation of payments, money laundering and duplicate
payments, all payments received are subject to the following
retention periods as from receipt of your refund
application: Payment by Debit advice procedure/debit
transfer system: 42 days
- Credit Card
payment 30 days
- Payment by
SOFORT Bank Transfer: 30 days
- Clickandbuy: 30
days
- PayPal: 21 days
Obviously, I was not going to
accept a credit against a future order, and I was not
prepared to wait until the time that they stipulated for a
refund processed through PayPal (21 days) to drag this saga
out beyond the PayPal Dispute timeframe, so I called PayPal
at this point. |
|
18-Jan-2014 |
The PayPal
Dispute Process starts with raising a "dispute" between the
buyer and seller, normally, at least 7 days must elapse
between raising a Dispute and escalating it to
a Claim. When I called PayPal, they
immediately escalated my case to a Claim - I
suspect that they knew where this was going based on their
previous experience of i-store-online.
Unprompted, the Agent stated that I
would certainly get my money back, repeating that a number
of times and trying hard to set my mind at ease - not that I
needed it, but again, I suspect that they have had to so
this for lots of i-store-online
"customers". |
|
18-Jan-2014 |
PayPal
then worked through its standard Dispute process, initially
e-mailing the Seller and giving him 20 days to respond.
|
|
6-Feb-2014
+62 Days |
I assume
that the Seller did not respond as PayPal sent them another
e-mail 4 days later. |
|
10-Feb-2014
+66 Days |
I called
PayPal again and queried the status of the Claim, while I
was on the phone, they confirmed that the money had been
reclaimed from the Seller and a refund had been processed.
The money was credited back to my Credit Card a few minutes
later. |
|
10-Feb-2014
+67 Days |
sale-point Order
Update - Refund has been made
New status: L4)
Refund has been made
Nice of them to confirm that PayPal
had refunded my money ! |
| So, apart from i-store-online
having my money for over two months, having had to pay my
credit card bill before receiving the refund from PayPal and
the inconvenience caused, I was not too badly effected by
this saga.
If I had not done some research or
had been unaware of the time limit on raising PayPal
disputes, I could have been significantly out of pocket.
With the benefit of hindsight, the notes below may provide
useful information for anyone contemplating an e-purchase.
Given the number of bad reviews
that I had seen and based on my experience, I asked PayPal
why they allowed this Company to continue to trade using the
PayPal scheme, they just advised that if a supplier "caused
[them[ problems", they would remove their PayPal facilities,
but I did not get the impression that they would do this
anytime soon. |
Lessons Learned ?
| Does this experience mean that I will not
order from overseas online discount sites in the future? |
No, but as I should have done at the
outset, I will make sure that I do more research into the
website that I plan on using before I order. |
| Would I use PayPal for such transactions in
future ? |
Probably not. In my case, I had no
problems with the PayPal Dispute process, but :
- you need to be aware of the Dispute Process rules,
in particular, the maximum time for opening a dispute (45
days).
- the outcome is based solely on PayPal's view of the
transaction
- there does not appear to be any arbitration process
should PayPal not find in your favour
|
Other Info
| Are there better ways of paying a supplier
that you may not have full confidence in? |
Yes, in
the UK at least.
Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act offers unbeatable
protection if you pay for goods, or even a proportion of
them, with a value between £100 and £30,000 with a Credit
Card.
The act states that in certain circumstances, the
provider of credit is equally liable with the provider of
goods or services in cases where there has been
misrepresentation or a breach of contract.
Although there may be a surcharge for using a credit
card, paying even a small proportion of the total cost by
credit card offers the full protection of the law and is a
sensible precaution. Alternatively - use a site that you
do have confidence in. |
| Does Section 75 cover purchases from a
foreign website? |
Yes |
| Does Section 75 cover PayPal payments made
by Credit Card? |
No - the
protection is provided between the card holder and the
provider of goods or services, in this case, there is not a
direct relationship between the Credit Card company and the
provider of the goods. |
| Does Section 75 cover the use of Debit
cards? |
No -
although there is much reduced level of protection called
Chargeback |
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